Christofer Johnsson, the mastermind of THERION speaks to RockOverdose greek rock/metal webzine, about the band's latest news and of course about their future plans, the Rock Opera project they're preparing - as well as - other interesting stuff regarding the music industry in general. Moreover, due to his extensive experience he doesn't hesitate to give his valuable advice to new musicians ...
Let's see what he has to say!
RockOverdose: First of all I'd like to ask you about the Rock Opera you are preparing? Can you tell us some more information about it? When it will be ready?
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): I’ve no idea, really. We don’t have any clue. Not this year for sure. We’ve been finishing the story line, doing chapters, we’ve done most of the scenes, we’ve written lot of music for many things but there’re still lot left to write. We need choreography, design costumes, draw sceneries. It’s not just singing the story… we’ve got to perform the story…It’s a big difference. It’s so much work behind that.
It is partly based on a Russian short novel from the famous Russian Vladimir Soloviev. It’s called “A Short Tale Of Antichrist”. So it would be partly based on it and it’s a very good, dark and dramatic story since we don’t and we couldn’t write music for some ridiculous love story. It’s a good way to make something darker and get away with it, because it would make ourselves darker.
The regular mainstream audience I would get back to explain what I mean later, they would just dismiss it saying “wow! A metalhead making a rock opera must be some kind of devil worship bullshit” but now because this is fine culture, it’s a famous Russian novel, you know they would say "it’s OK". It’s always like that. Take Baudelaire for instance, the French poet, if somebody would have written many of these things would be considered vulgar but now because its poetry it is considered fine culture.
You can always get away with bizarre things that are not approved by big culture.
Anyway, the reason we need the mainstream audience is because this is a very expensive production. We can’t do the regular thing e.g. play in one city and then take the tour bus and go to the next one. It’s a lot of work putting everything up, taking everything down and it costs a fortune to transport everything and do multiple shows to make this work economically. When they put out a musical you can see they repeat the same thing just like a movie at the cinema, it will continue to be there for a long while, and so everybody would be interested to see it. With the THERION fans, we can for sure sell out the first show maybe a second one, we can’t sell out for a week so we need … your mothers’ cash.
And to make things work, make your mother interested, we need to be not more commercial but more accessible, if you see what I mean. This means that if your mother would go and see e.g. "Jesus Christ Super Star" she doesn’t have the studio version of the album at home, she would probably hear about it and may know it’s a famous rock opera and she’d take another friend together so when she goes there she goes the same way she would go to the cinema to see a movie. It’s an entertainment event and it needs to be instant understandable, nothing like “Wow, I’ve read this story before, or listen to a CD before...”, nothing like that, you just go there.
It is very difficult balance because first of all we need to do something we like, secondly to do something our fans like and 3rd we need your mother to like it as well. I thing we could do it without compromising, do something that everybody would like. Take e.g. a song like “Lemuria”, your mother can listen to that, it is possible to do something that can please everybody. You just have to be very careful on how you put up things but the important thing is the storyline, because for you and your fans the music is the most important thing but for your mother it’s not. It’s of course very important for a rock music opera but it’s the entertainment and what happens on stage, the story, the acting and all that. So even though the music is very important is still secondary to what happens on stage and that’s a very new situation for us to think in that way. So that’s why it’s not like “Ok, we’ve written music, let’s go”… it’s not like that!
RockOverdose: Do you believe that this economic crisis we experience, destroys creativity? You are a band that takes risks and you are not afraid to experiment with your music…
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): We always risk, actually with every album, that’s normal. We always work best when we have a gun against our head. That’s a big risk in everything and that’s why THERION really likes working. I think bands in general are all the some kind of afraid, even in good times, why should they risk something, they have something that works great so why they should risk…Unless they are really big and decide to take another road… like e.g. decide to go to India and search some kind of wisdom like Beatles. As regards the economic crisis, it’s different and if we consider Greece, there's a very tough situation, it’s an everyday thing, people can’t afford to eat, and it’s not the same thing up here, we live in a bubble. However, I believe the problem is somewhere else, you are used to more tough times and I think you would have a much better situation than us, when things will explode for us.
RockOverdose: Your work is too complex to be understood. Do you believe that your fans can follow your music “messages”?
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): There’s no message, we just do good entertainment. I write the music I like, somebody else writes the song and we use the lyrics I like just to please myself really , if other people like it I’m of course very happy! Of course I want to be successful but I never had the wish to be famous. There’s a big difference between successful and famous. Everybody wants recognition and feels like they’ve done well of course, pragmatically… I’m 41 years old, it’s not like when you’re 20, I’ve bills to pay and responsibilities and of course I worry about financials.
It’s like when you pain the painting you like but then you have to sell it. I don’t paint for people tell me to paint, that’s the difference. With the Rock Opera it’s a little bit different cause for the first time we have to fit in something. We have to write whatever we like but we have to choose from those things. An interesting thing is that I can never write anything on command. A record label would say, we need to write a ballad for a movie…could you write it for 1000€ in this weekend? Even if I could write it, I’m not inspired. My songwriting has a total will on its own. However the other guys are more flexible and I hope we can complete each other there, we have to write enough and put things in there.
RockOverdose: Do you consider your music pioneer and why?
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): We are one of the earliest death metal bands as far as I know, we were the 2nddeath metal band ever to use keyboards, Nocturnal were before us, but they use it not in symphonic way but more in a futuristic way. From the pure death metal bands of our generation I think we are the first ones to use keyboards, middle eastern music to mix heavy with death metal , things that did Celtic Frost first but they were operatic, we were the first pure death metal band to use operatic vocals. We were always pioneers and we are still doing new things that people may not notice that much, now it’s normal for a band to experiment very heavy.
RockOverdose: How easy is for a new band to establish? Do you have any advice for new musicians or new bands?
Christofer Johnsson(THERION): To be perfectly honest, I’m very very happy that I’m not in a new band today because e.g. recently I helped a friend of mine to look into a label contract and when I read it…at first I thought it was a joke… I mean the only thing missing from the terms was “wow…we can also f@#*k your girlfriend” or “put a finger on your b#*&e”! Basically, they mix the publishing rights with the recording rights, which means that if you want to sign and have a record, you also have to give them the rights of your songs! That’s a separate thing, if you want to have a music publisher you can go to one and “safe” your songs and get an advance, otherwise you get it by copyright and that’s usually the only money that a band makes. First of all, they had to do that and they would be taking 50%, for a band that’s a shit-deal, the publisher takes 40% but they say 50-50. The royalty was so low and also the merchandise belongs to the record company as well. Sometimes this is separate but in this deal they were all put together, that means you take all the risks, you put money of your own and you only take 30% of the profit. It’s mafia deal. If you book concerts they get also a percentage. The biggest problem is where you should go with your songs.
RockOverdose: So it’s better to do it by yourself?
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): Yeah, but then you may don’t have the money, the knowledge, the resources it’s not so easy. If for example you go on tour who’s gonna take care of the business, it’s a whole business.The only thing you can do is record your music, put it on Spotify or i-tunes and sell CD’s directly to fans at the concert. But you still have the problem of promotion, it’s not that easy.
RockOverdose: Maybe that’s the future of the music industry…many bands have step by step become more popular this way....jpg)
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): I would give 3 advices: First of all put it out yourself, if you have the money. Secondly, do every festival you can, if you go on a support tour usually you don’t get paid, but still you need to pay your costs. The third advice is very important too. Don’t try to copy other successful bands, if you do this then in the best case you may be the talk of the day for 5 minutes. Write the music you like and don’t think about what other people would like or what’s popular at the moment. If you do your own things sooner or later would be pay off. Everybody just tries to see which way the wind is blowing, they will be sailing straight hopefully.
RockOverdose: That’s a good way to close this interview. It was a pleasure to talk with you.
Christofer Johnsson (THERION): Thank you very much!
For RockOverdose,
Vivi Zapantiotou
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